World Layers

[Judy Sims]

I would love to have some opinions from other world builders about layers in CAW.

How many layers do you use and how do you organize them? Can you start a new layer anytime and move the objects such as lots or rocks to to that layer? Also, do you think layers are beneficial to game play and why?

I have tried to read up on this, but there is not much info out there. I read somewhere that the layers are just for you to organize your world building, but have no use when the world is exported. That all are meshed together as one layer when the world is installed.

Thanks, Judy

[Simbody]

I usually have a minimum of 4 (in addition to the global layer) and sometimes up to 6. One is only trees and plants. The others are usually for lots, one for rocks and fences, one for other objects, one for spawners and the last one is for lights and road grates, signs, etc. Often the lots are on a layer with other objects like the big rocks, and other world objects such as bridges, lighthouse etc.

This keeps it organized for me, I can easily find the objects that need to be deleted, or if I'm really unhappy with how those things are placed I can delete the whole layer and start over. With Spawners it helps me keep them to a minimum, I can quickly see where I have too many of one type.

Trees and plants should always be on one layer, this means that all trees of one type in each bounding area will create one object instead of one for each type and layer.

Most items can be moved from one layer to another except for lots. I often forget and start placing trees before I have activated the tree layer. You can right click on the item in the list and select move to new layer. I think you can also delete and undo provided you have the right layer active and when it comes back it's attached to the active layer, but it's been a while since I've tried this.

To be honest I'm not sure if it makes game play better or not. The two worlds I have 'published' seem to run fairly well and I've had little to no complaints about lag or routing issues or other problems.

[Judy Sims]

(11-08-2011 12:27 PM)Simbody Wrote:  I usually have a minimum of 4 (in addition to the global layer) and sometimes up to 6. One is only trees and plants. The others are usually for lots, one for rocks and fences, one for other objects, one for spawners and the last one is for lights and road grates, signs, etc. Often the lots are on a layer with other objects like the big rocks, and other world objects such as bridges, lighthouse etc.

This keeps it organized for me, I can easily find the objects that need to be deleted, or if I'm really unhappy with how those things are placed I can delete the whole layer and start over. With Spawners it helps me keep them to a minimum, I can quickly see where I have too many of one type.

Trees and plants should always be on one layer, this means that all trees of one type in each bounding area will create one object instead of one for each type and layer.

Most items can be moved from one layer to another except for lots. I often forget and start placing trees before I have activated the tree layer. You can right click on the item in the list and select move to new layer. I think you can also delete and undo provided you have the right layer active and when it comes back it's attached to the active layer, but it's been a while since I've tried this.

To be honest I'm not sure if it makes game play better or not. The two worlds I have 'published' seem to run fairly well and I've had little to no complaints about lag or routing issues or other problems.

Thanks, Simbody. All of that was helpful. Why can't you move lots to another layer? Do you design a new layer for lots when you start placing them? I bet I should do that. I can see with a very large world where more layers would be helpful. I put my spawners on a new layer, but need to move some of my objects like bridges and decor to another layer, I think. I guess that is okay to do so at this late stage?

I would love some more opinions on this. Especially on how layers affect the game.

---

Oh yes, I don't understand this statement:

"Trees and plants should always be on one layer, this means that all trees of one type in each bounding area will create one object instead of one for each type and layer."

[Regina]

I also really don't have the answer to what is a good layer system. I've seen several CAW saves by a number of people and it seems like everyone has their own system, from one layer with everything on it to four or five organized layers. In the Shire I have many, many layers, probably too many but for the time being anyway I need them. In my much smaller tropical world I have four or five, don't recall which right now, with an extra temporary layer. My temp layer is more of a testing layer than anything, something I can delete quickly if I decide what I did was no good (although admittedly I find some weird satisfaction in manually deleting objects).

Quote:Oh yes, I don't understand this statement:

"Trees and plants should always be on one layer, this means that all trees of one type in each bounding area will create one object instead of one for each type and layer."

Groups of trees and plants are clustered into one object which really helps with performance. The way they are clustered is that each plant of the same type which are on the same layer and in the same chunk is clustered into one large object. Say you have large oak trees on two different layers in one chunk then you save your work and auto-cluster goes to work, those trees are clustered as two objects instead of one. Keeping plants all on one layer helps to optimize the number of objects that ultimately will be on your map.

Now say you're building your town so to start with you have it divided into different sections so that all objects on a certain number of chunks are going into one layer. You'll still get the benefit of the plants being optimized by clustering because they don't cross into other chunks.

The delete and undo definitely does still work. I use it occasionally when I've forgotten to change to the layer I wanted something on. I'm pretty sure, though, that the object that gets deleted ends up renamed, though, like object_34 or whatever. Even so, that's often better than having to try to move a bunch of objects manually to the correct layer. Also, foliage will be renamed in a similar fashion if it's unclustered but sometimes unclustering is necessary.

I moved an EMPTY lot the other day to another layer without any problems but I've never tried it with a built lot. I was working on my tropical island world and ended up accidentally placing a lot on the wrong layer and after everything I'd gone through to get it exactly where I wanted it I didn't want to have to replace it completely so I dragged it in the layer menu to the right layer.

Definitely delete>Undo is NOT a good thing to do on lots that have been built on because when they come back the building on them will be gone.

Anyway, for a normally organized world like my tropical island (which is on a medium map so fairly easy to keep track of stuff anyway) my layer structure looks like this:
Objects
Foliage
Spawners
Lots

I like having all the lots on one layer because they're so much easier to find for assigning addresses and such.
Temp

[Judy Sims]

(11-08-2011 01:51 PM)Regina Wrote:  I also really don't have the answer to what is a good layer system. I've seen several CAW saves by a number of people and it seems like everyone has their own system, from one layer with everything on it to four or five organized layers. In the Shire I have many, many layers, probably too many but for the time being anyway I need them. In my much smaller tropical world I have four or five, don't recall which right now, with an extra temporary layer. My temp layer is more of a testing layer than anything, something I can delete quickly if I decide what I did was no good (although admittedly I find some weird satisfaction in manually deleting objects).

Quote:Oh yes, I don't understand this statement:

"Trees and plants should always be on one layer, this means that all trees of one type in each bounding area will create one object instead of one for each type and layer."

Groups of trees and plants are clustered into one object which really helps with performance. The way they are clustered is that each plant of the same type which are on the same layer and in the same chunk is clustered into one large object. Say you have large oak trees on two different layers in one chunk then you save your work and auto-cluster goes to work, those trees are clustered as two objects instead of one. Keeping plants all on one layer helps to optimize the number of objects that ultimately will be on your map.

Now say you're building your town so to start with you have it divided into different sections so that all objects on a certain number of chunks are going into one layer. You'll still get the benefit of the plants being optimized by clustering because they don't cross into other chunks.

The delete and undo definitely does still work. I use it occasionally when I've forgotten to change to the layer I wanted something on. I'm pretty sure, though, that the object that gets deleted ends up renamed, though, like object_34 or whatever. Even so, that's often better than having to try to move a bunch of objects manually to the correct layer. Also, foliage will be renamed in a similar fashion if it's unclustered but sometimes unclustering is necessary.

I moved an EMPTY lot the other day to another layer without any problems but I've never tried it with a built lot. I was working on my tropical island world and ended up accidentally placing a lot on the wrong layer and after everything I'd gone through to get it exactly where I wanted it I didn't want to have to replace it completely so I dragged it in the layer menu to the right layer.

Definitely delete>Undo is NOT a good thing to do on lots that have been built on because when they come back the building on them will be gone.

Anyway, for a normally organized world like my tropical island (which is on a medium map so fairly easy to keep track of stuff anyway) my layer structure looks like this:
Objects
Foliage
Spawners
Lots

I like having all the lots on one layer because they're so much easier to find for assigning addresses and such.
Temp

Thanks, Regina. That was informative. I have so much to understand about CAW. I guess you all will be getting more questions. So you don't think the number of layers, if one or ten, affects how the world plays?

[Regina]

You and me both, Judy! As for the number of layers and possible effects on the world I have no answer.

[Judy Sims]

Well, I guess trial and error is always on option.

[Judy Sims]

Does anyone do this before you export?

CAW Routing Tips:
Rebuild routing data is your best friend
You should press it every time before you export a world. No matter if you have made changes or not.
A tiny error in routing can cause massive lag
White lines and dots show where your sims can go
Broken white lines/stand alone white dots cause lag.
Red boxes around objects are their footprints
Sometimes an object can hide a routing flaw under it, so you should always check your routing with objects hidden
The blue paint is Sims non-routable paint. You should use it everywhere you don't want Sims to go.
When using non-routable paints, make sure there are no spots inside it left un painted. (If a Sims spawns to a spot like that, they get stuck and cause lag.)
A hint: You need to move the camera a little for the routing data to update after pressing rebuild routing data.
Another hint: You can place flowers or any other object to a spot that is tricky and does not fix the routing properly (sometimes there are stubborn lines), if that is convenient for that spot. Then press rebuild routing data, and hopefully the spot is then fixed.

[Gurra]

I really want to use different layers since that would make it much more organized. But every time I try I just forget to change layers when changing what I do and things like that so I have given up on that and use just one layer now

[Judy Sims]

(11-09-2011 10:04 AM)Gurra Wrote:  I really want to use different layers since that would make it much more organized. But every time I try I just forget to change layers when changing what I do and things like that so I have given up on that and use just one layer now

I have only used one layer in the past, but I am wondering how that affects the game play. I am like you and would probably forget to use the right layer.:MrGreen:

[Regina]

Judy, one thing I can say with absolute certainty is that most of what's been learned about CAW has been a result of trial and error.

When using multiple layers it's easy to forget to change to the right layer but after a few times of forgetting and having to move stuff to the right layer it's a WHOLE lot easier to remember to change in the first place. It's kind of like a punishment system which is VERY effective. :bounce:

[Judy Sims]

(11-09-2011 01:09 PM)Regina Wrote:  Judy, one thing I can say with absolute certainty is that most of what's been learned about CAW has been a result of trial and error.

When using multiple layers it's easy to forget to change to the right layer but after a few times of forgetting and having to move stuff to the right layer it's a WHOLE lot easier to remember to change in the first place. It's kind of like a punishment system which is VERY effective. :bounce:

You are such a card.:MrGreen: Yes, CAW punishes me quite frequently. It is very unforgiving.:bounce: